Forums

Obsolete Tools: TEB, C6211 etc...

Started by Bhooshan iyer November 29, 2004

Hi All-
I was wondering if some one could help me what reasons go into product
obsolence by TI?

I am quite intrigued by the fact that, TMS320C6713 DSk, which is acknoledged
to be a revision on C6711 co-exists with the latter whereas logically on
would have thought C6711 was a good candidate for retirement? And TEB (6416
based test and evaluation board) was made obsolete inspite of it being
introduced only a couple of years back? What has replaced TEB?

I think it is no secrete here that am confused!

--Bhooshan

_________________________________________________________________
Life on the fast track! Get hooked to it!
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Bhooshan-

> I am quite intrigued by the fact that, TMS320C6713 DSk, which is acknoledged
> to be a revision on C6711 co-exists with the latter whereas logically on
> would have thought C6711 was a good candidate for retirement? And TEB (6416
> based test and evaluation board) was made obsolete inspite of it being
> introduced only a couple of years back? What has replaced TEB?

DSK C6711 has higher performance in host transfer rates because:

-JTAG data does not go through USB-JTAG interface

-has HPI port option

With DSK C6713 board, the maximum host data rate is about 20 kbyte/sec, which
means
it's not suitable for video daughtercard, streaming audio data to disk file,
etc.

-Jeff




Jeff Brower wrote:
>
> Bhooshan-
>
> > I am quite intrigued by the fact that, TMS320C6713 DSk, which is acknoledged
> > to be a revision on C6711 co-exists with the latter whereas logically on
> > would have thought C6711 was a good candidate for retirement? And TEB (6416
> > based test and evaluation board) was made obsolete inspite of it being
> > introduced only a couple of years back? What has replaced TEB?
>
> DSK C6711 has higher performance in host transfer rates because:
>
> -JTAG data does not go through USB-JTAG interface
>
> -has HPI port option
>
> With DSK C6713 board, the maximum host data rate is about 20 kbyte/sec, which
means
> it's not suitable for video daughtercard, streaming audio data to disk file,
etc.
>
> -Jeff
>
I do not know this for a fact, but Spectrum Digital has a C6413 {I
think} DSK. This
I think is the replacement for the TEB.

Regds
JS




Bhooshan and others,
 
A couple of clues are in the acronyms - but when you really look at the life cycles of various products, it is still a bit confusing.
The following is my understanding [and opinion]...
 
TEB - Test Evaluation Board.  Normally for early adopters of a new device.  the 6416 TEB supported the initial C64x device that was available.  examples and peripherals may be limited for TEBs.  These have a JTAG header and require an emulator.
DSK - DSP Starter Kit.  A turnkey package that is low cost, has an on board emulator, has audio I/O, and example/tutorial programs. Intened for entry level DSP development.
EVM - EValuation Module. A "professional grade" development platform, requires an external emulator, may or may not have a 'vertical' focus.
 
The 6416 TEB was replaced by the 6416 DSK.
I think that jeff's 6711/6713 DSK comments may be accurate.
 
mikedunn
Jagadeesh Sankaran <s...@ti.com> wrote:


Jeff Brower wrote:
>
> Bhooshan-
>
> > I am quite intrigued by the fact that, TMS320C6713 DSk, which is acknoledged
> > to be a revision on C6711 co-exists with the latter whereas logically on
> > would have thought C6711 was a good candidate for retirement? And TEB (6416
> > based test and evaluation board) was made obsolete inspite of it being
> > introduced only a couple of years back? What has replaced TEB?
>
> DSK C6711 has higher performance in host transfer rates because:
>
> -JTAG data does not go through USB-JTAG interface
>
> -has HPI port option
>
> With DSK C6713 board, the maximum host data rate is about 20 kbyte/sec, which means
> it's not suitable for video daughtercard, streaming audio data to disk file, etc.
>
> -Jeff
>
I do not know this for a fact, but Spectrum Digital has a C6413 {I
think} DSK. This
I think is the replacement for the TEB.

Regds
JS_____________________________________
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Jeff-

>DSK C6711 has higher performance in host transfer rates because:

Isnt the traditional idea that a USB device communicates faster than a
paralell port? ( I may be wrong here because i have not idea about the USB
technology)

Then how come the 6711 communicates faster with the host than the 6713?

Mike-
Thanks for your comments but as you said the big business picture is still
vague. I made some further digging in the TI website and discovered some
more shocking details. Almost all the C6x EVM's are obsolete! including:
670x EVM's and 620x EVM's and the sites dont give info on why they were
discontinued just that the alternate device to use is c6713. Thats it!

Its a different issue that they still sell those same chips in volumes but
no more EVM platforms!

As far as i can see there are only DSK's in the C6000 stable now!

-C6711
-C6712
-C6713
-C6416
-DM Series
-and app dev kits

Could it be because the DSK's were more than adequate for product
development than the heavily priced EVM's?

ps: Still looking for the TI definition of the word "obsolete"

--Bhooshan
----Original Message Follows----
From: Mike Dunn <>
To: Jagadeesh Sankaran <>, Jeff Brower
<>
CC: Bhooshan Iyer <>,
Subject: Re: [c6x] Obsolete Tools: TEB, C6211 etc...
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 12:19:30 -0800 (PST)

Bhooshan and others,

A couple of clues are in the acronyms - but when you really look at the life
cycles of various products, it is still a bit confusing.
The following is my understanding [and opinion]...

TEB - Test Evaluation Board. Normally for early adopters of a new device.
the 6416 TEB supported the initial C64x device that was available. examples
and peripherals may be limited for TEBs. These have a JTAG header and
require an emulator.
DSK - DSP Starter Kit. A turnkey package that is low cost, has an on board
emulator, has audio I/O, and example/tutorial programs. Intened for entry
level DSP development.
EVM - EValuation Module. A "professional grade" development platform,
requires an external emulator, may or may not have a 'vertical' focus.

The 6416 TEB was replaced by the 6416 DSK.
I think that jeff's 6711/6713 DSK comments may be accurate.

mikedunn
Jagadeesh Sankaran <> wrote: Jeff Brower wrote:
>
> Bhooshan-
>
> > I am quite intrigued by the fact that, TMS320C6713 DSk, which is
acknoledged
> > to be a revision on C6711 co-exists with the latter whereas logically
on
> > would have thought C6711 was a good candidate for retirement? And TEB
(6416
> > based test and evaluation board) was made obsolete inspite of it being
> > introduced only a couple of years back? What has replaced TEB?
>
> DSK C6711 has higher performance in host transfer rates because:
>
> -JTAG data does not go through USB-JTAG interface
>
> -has HPI port option
>
> With DSK C6713 board, the maximum host data rate is about 20 kbyte/sec,
which means
> it's not suitable for video daughtercard, streaming audio data to disk
file, etc.
>
> -Jeff
>
I do not know this for a fact, but Spectrum Digital has a C6413 {I
think} DSK. This
I think is the replacement for the TEB.

Regds
JS _____________________________________
Note: If you do a simple "reply" with your email client, only the author of
this message will receive your answer. You need to do a "reply all" if you
want your answer to be distributed to the entire group.

_____________________________________
About this discussion group:

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here now!



Bhooshan-

> >DSK C6711 has higher performance in host transfer rates because:
>
> Isnt the traditional idea that a USB device communicates faster than a
> paralell port? ( I may be wrong here because i have not idea about the USB
> technology)
>
> Then how come the 6711 communicates faster with the host than the 6713?

Ah Bhooshan, you are theoretical today. Yes of course it should be that way.
The
JTAG controller chip - USB interface -- and the way it was implemented in
practice --
is the issue.

-Jeff

> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: Mike Dunn <>
> To: Jagadeesh Sankaran <>, Jeff Brower
> <>
> CC: Bhooshan Iyer <>,
> Subject: Re: [c6x] Obsolete Tools: TEB, C6211 etc...
> Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 12:19:30 -0800 (PST)
>
> Bhooshan and others,
>
> A couple of clues are in the acronyms - but when you really look at the life
> cycles of various products, it is still a bit confusing.
> The following is my understanding [and opinion]...
>
> TEB - Test Evaluation Board. Normally for early adopters of a new device.
> the 6416 TEB supported the initial C64x device that was available. examples
> and peripherals may be limited for TEBs. These have a JTAG header and
> require an emulator.
> DSK - DSP Starter Kit. A turnkey package that is low cost, has an on board
> emulator, has audio I/O, and example/tutorial programs. Intened for entry
> level DSP development.
> EVM - EValuation Module. A "professional grade" development platform,
> requires an external emulator, may or may not have a 'vertical' focus.
>
> The 6416 TEB was replaced by the 6416 DSK.
> I think that jeff's 6711/6713 DSK comments may be accurate.
>
> mikedunn
> Jagadeesh Sankaran <> wrote:
>
> Jeff Brower wrote:
> >
> > Bhooshan-
> >
> > > I am quite intrigued by the fact that, TMS320C6713 DSk, which is
> acknoledged
> > > to be a revision on C6711 co-exists with the latter whereas logically
> on
> > > would have thought C6711 was a good candidate for retirement? And TEB
> (6416
> > > based test and evaluation board) was made obsolete inspite of it being
> > > introduced only a couple of years back? What has replaced TEB?
> >
> > DSK C6711 has higher performance in host transfer rates because:
> >
> > -JTAG data does not go through USB-JTAG interface
> >
> > -has HPI port option
> >
> > With DSK C6713 board, the maximum host data rate is about 20 kbyte/sec,
> which means
> > it's not suitable for video daughtercard, streaming audio data to disk
> file, etc.
> >
> > -Jeff
> >
> I do not know this for a fact, but Spectrum Digital has a C6413 {I
> think} DSK. This
> I think is the replacement for the TEB.
>
> Regds
> JS
>
> _____________________________________
> Note: If you do a simple "reply" with your email client, only the author of
> this message will receive your answer. You need to do a "reply all" if you
> want your answer to be distributed to the entire group.
>
> _____________________________________
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>
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>
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>
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>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> _________________________________________________________________
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> here now!



Bhooshan - FYI,
 
RE:  EVMs
At least one person at TI has indicated that they want to ensure that DSK-type platforms are "available for the masses" and that TI would only pursue 'selected' vertical EVMs.  Their intent is to leave space for their third parties to deliver additional 'EVM-type' products [both vertical and general purpose] to the market.
 
RE: 6201/6701 EVMs
The first TI 6201 EVM that I used [the design hasn't changed] had a 'pre-Code Composer' TI debugger and ran on Windows 95 [Win 98 was still 'on the way'].  I suspect that it has a few obsolete parts on it.
 
mikedunn

Bhooshan iyer <b...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Jeff-

>DSK C6711 has higher performance in host transfer rates because:

Isnt the traditional idea that a USB device communicates faster than a
paralell port? ( I may be wrong here because i have not idea about the USB
technology)

Then how come the 6711 communicates faster with the host than the 6713?

Mike-
Thanks for your comments but as you said the big business picture is still
vague. I made some further digging in the TI website and discovered some
more shocking details. Almost all the C6x EVM's are obsolete! including:
670x EVM's and 620x EVM's and the sites dont give info on why they were
discontinued just that the alternate device to use is c6713. Thats it!

Its a different issue that they still sell those same chips in volumes but
no more EVM platforms!

As far as i can see there are only DSK's in the C6000 stable now!

-C6711
-C6712
-C6713
-C6416
-DM Series
-and app dev kits

Could it be because the DSK's were more than adequate for product
development than the heavily priced EVM's?

ps: Still looking for the TI definition of the word "obsolete"

--Bhooshan
----Original Message Follows----
From: Mike Dunn
To: Jagadeesh Sankaran , Jeff Brower

CC: Bhooshan Iyer , c...@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [c6x] Obsolete Tools: TEB, C6211 etc...
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 12:19:30 -0800 (PST)

Bhooshan and others,

A couple of clues are in the acronyms - but when you really look at the life
cycles of various products, it is still a bit confusing.
The following is my understanding [and opinion]...

TEB - Test Evaluation Board. Normally for early adopters of a new device.
the 6416 TEB supported the initial C64x device that was available. examples
and peripherals may be limited for TEBs. These have a JTAG header and
require an emulator.
DSK - DSP Starter Kit. A turnkey package that is low cost, has an on board
emulator, has audio I/O, and example/tutorial programs. Intened for entry
level DSP development.
EVM - EValuation Module. A "professional grade" development platform,
requires an external emulator, may or may not have a 'vertical' focus.

The 6416 TEB was replaced by the 6416 DSK.
I think that jeff's 6711/6713 DSK comments may be accurate.

mikedunn
Jagadeesh Sankaran wrote:Jeff Brower wrote:
>
> Bhooshan-
>
> > I am quite intrigued by the fact that, TMS320C6713 DSk, which is
acknoledged
> > to be a revision on C6711 co-exists with the latter whereas logically
on
> > would have thought C6711 was a good candidate for retirement? And TEB
(6416
> > based test and evaluation board) was made obsolete inspite of it being
> > introduced only a couple of years back? What has replaced TEB?
>
> DSK C6711 has higher performance in host transfer rates because:
>
> -JTAG data does not go through USB-JTAG interface
>
> -has HPI port option
>
> With DSK C6713 board, the maximum host data rate is about 20 kbyte/sec,
which means
> it's not suitable for video daughtercard, streaming audio data to disk
file, etc.
>
> -Jeff
>
I do not know this for a fact, but Spectrum Digital has a C6413 {I
think} DSK. This
I think is the replacement for the TEB.

Regds
JS_____________________________________
Note: If you do a simple "reply" with your email client, only the author of
this message will receive your answer. You need to do a "reply all" if you
want your answer to be distributed to the entire group.

_____________________________________
About this discussion group:

To Join: Send an email to c...@yahoogroups.com

To Post: Send an email to c...@yahoogroups.com

To Leave: Send an email to c...@yahoogroups.com

Archives: http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/c6x

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_________________________________________________________________
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here now!





Thanks Mike!
It makes more sense now that you have offered some very clear insights over
two different mails but the problem is that in the normal course of events i
wouldnt have posted this query and would have ended carrying some
micconception. And also these shifts in strategy and positioning is easily
explained even by TI employees!

So thanks a lot!

--Bhooshan

Bhooshan - FYI,

RE: EVMs
At least one person at TI has indicated that they want to ensure that
DSK-type platforms are "available for the masses" and that TI would only
pursue 'selected' vertical EVMs. Their intent is to leave space for their
third parties to deliver additional 'EVM-type' products [both vertical and
general purpose] to the market.

RE: 6201/6701 EVMs
The first TI 6201 EVM that I used [the design hasn't changed] had a
'pre-Code Composer' TI debugger and ran on Windows 95 [Win 98 was still 'on
the way']. I suspect that it has a few obsolete parts on it.

mikedunn

Bhooshan iyer <> wrote:
Jeff-

>DSK C6711 has higher performance in host transfer rates because:

Isnt the traditional idea that a USB device communicates faster than a
paralell port? ( I may be wrong here because i have not idea about the USB
technology)

Then how come the 6711 communicates faster with the host than the 6713?

Mike-
Thanks for your comments but as you said the big business picture is still
vague. I made some further digging in the TI website and discovered some
more shocking details. Almost all the C6x EVM's are obsolete! including:
670x EVM's and 620x EVM's and the sites dont give info on why they were
discontinued just that the alternate device to use is c6713. Thats it!

Its a different issue that they still sell those same chips in volumes but
no more EVM platforms!

As far as i can see there are only DSK's in the C6000 stable now!

-C6711
-C6712
-C6713
-C6416
-DM Series
-and app dev kits

Could it be because the DSK's were more than adequate for product
development than the heavily priced EVM's?

ps: Still looking for the TI definition of the word "obsolete"

--Bhooshan
----Original Message Follows----
From: Mike Dunn
To: Jagadeesh Sankaran , Jeff Brower

CC: Bhooshan Iyer ,
Subject: Re: [c6x] Obsolete Tools: TEB, C6211 etc...
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 12:19:30 -0800 (PST)

Bhooshan and others,

A couple of clues are in the acronyms - but when you really look at the life
cycles of various products, it is still a bit confusing.
The following is my understanding [and opinion]...

TEB - Test Evaluation Board. Normally for early adopters of a new device.
the 6416 TEB supported the initial C64x device that was available. examples
and peripherals may be limited for TEBs. These have a JTAG header and
require an emulator.
DSK - DSP Starter Kit. A turnkey package that is low cost, has an on board
emulator, has audio I/O, and example/tutorial programs. Intened for entry
level DSP development.
EVM - EValuation Module. A "professional grade" development platform,
requires an external emulator, may or may not have a 'vertical' focus.

The 6416 TEB was replaced by the 6416 DSK.
I think that jeff's 6711/6713 DSK comments may be accurate.

mikedunn
Jagadeesh Sankaran wrote: Jeff Brower wrote:
>
> Bhooshan-
>
> > I am quite intrigued by the fact that, TMS320C6713 DSk, which is
acknoledged
> > to be a revision on C6711 co-exists with the latter whereas logically
on
> > would have thought C6711 was a good candidate for retirement? And TEB
(6416
> > based test and evaluation board) was made obsolete inspite of it being
> > introduced only a couple of years back? What has replaced TEB?
>
> DSK C6711 has higher performance in host transfer rates because:
>
> -JTAG data does not go through USB-JTAG interface
>
> -has HPI port option
>
> With DSK C6713 board, the maximum host data rate is about 20 kbyte/sec,
which means
> it's not suitable for video daughtercard, streaming audio data to disk
file, etc.
>
> -Jeff
>
I do not know this for a fact, but Spectrum Digital has a C6413 {I
think} DSK. This
I think is the replacement for the TEB.

Regds
JS _____________________________________
Note: If you do a simple "reply" with your email client, only the author of
this message will receive your answer. You need to do a "reply all" if you
want your answer to be distributed to the entire group.

_____________________________________
About this discussion group:

To Join: Send an email to

To Post: Send an email to

To Leave: Send an email to

Archives: http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/c6x

Other Groups: http://www.dsprelated.com

Yahoo! Groups Links

_________________________________________________________________
Protect your PC! Call in the experts! http://www.msn.co.in/security/ Click
here now!

_________________________________________________________________
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all your property needs.




Oops!
>And also these shifts in strategy and positioning is easily
> explained even by TI employees

Full of typos! Arggg... that must be the most incoherent reply ever!

I meant *Not* easily explained *even* by TI employees!

--Bhooshan
>
> Thanks Mike!
> It makes more sense now that you have offered some very clear
insights over
> two different mails but the problem is that in the normal course
of events i
> wouldnt have posted this query and would have ended carrying some
> micconception. And also these shifts in strategy and positioning
is easily
> explained even by TI employees!
>
> So thanks a lot!
>
> --Bhooshan
>
> Bhooshan - FYI,
>
> RE: EVMs
> At least one person at TI has indicated that they want to ensure
that
> DSK-type platforms are "available for the masses" and that TI
would only
> pursue 'selected' vertical EVMs. Their intent is to leave space
for their
> third parties to deliver additional 'EVM-type' products [both
vertical and
> general purpose] to the market.
>
> RE: 6201/6701 EVMs
> The first TI 6201 EVM that I used [the design hasn't changed] had
a
> 'pre-Code Composer' TI debugger and ran on Windows 95 [Win 98 was
still 'on
> the way']. I suspect that it has a few obsolete parts on it.
>
> mikedunn
>
> Bhooshan iyer <bhooshaniyer@h...> wrote:
> Jeff-
>
> >DSK C6711 has higher performance in host transfer rates because:
>
> Isnt the traditional idea that a USB device communicates faster
than a
> paralell port? ( I may be wrong here because i have not idea about
the USB
> technology)
>
> Then how come the 6711 communicates faster with the host than the
6713?
>
> Mike-
> Thanks for your comments but as you said the big business picture
is still
> vague. I made some further digging in the TI website and
discovered some
> more shocking details. Almost all the C6x EVM's are obsolete!
including:
> 670x EVM's and 620x EVM's and the sites dont give info on why they
were
> discontinued just that the alternate device to use is c6713. Thats
it!
>
> Its a different issue that they still sell those same chips in
volumes but
> no more EVM platforms!
>
> As far as i can see there are only DSK's in the C6000 stable now!
>
> -C6711
> -C6712
> -C6713
> -C6416
> -DM Series
> -and app dev kits
>
> Could it be because the DSK's were more than adequate for product
> development than the heavily priced EVM's?
>
> ps: Still looking for the TI definition of the word "obsolete"
>
> --Bhooshan
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: Mike Dunn
> To: Jagadeesh Sankaran , Jeff Brower
>
> CC: Bhooshan Iyer ,
> Subject: Re: [c6x] Obsolete Tools: TEB, C6211 etc...
> Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 12:19:30 -0800 (PST)
>
> Bhooshan and others,
>
> A couple of clues are in the acronyms - but when you really look
at the life
> cycles of various products, it is still a bit confusing.
> The following is my understanding [and opinion]...
>
> TEB - Test Evaluation Board. Normally for early adopters of a new
device.
> the 6416 TEB supported the initial C64x device that was available.
examples
> and peripherals may be limited for TEBs. These have a JTAG header
and
> require an emulator.
> DSK - DSP Starter Kit. A turnkey package that is low cost, has an
on board
> emulator, has audio I/O, and example/tutorial programs. Intened
for entry
> level DSP development.
> EVM - EValuation Module. A "professional grade" development
platform,
> requires an external emulator, may or may not have a 'vertical'
focus.
>
> The 6416 TEB was replaced by the 6416 DSK.
> I think that jeff's 6711/6713 DSK comments may be accurate.
>
> mikedunn
> Jagadeesh Sankaran wrote: > Jeff Brower wrote:
> >
> > Bhooshan-
> >
> > > I am quite intrigued by the fact that, TMS320C6713 DSk, which
is
> acknoledged
> > > to be a revision on C6711 co-exists with the latter whereas
logically
> on
> > > would have thought C6711 was a good candidate for retirement?
And TEB
> (6416
> > > based test and evaluation board) was made obsolete inspite of
it being
> > > introduced only a couple of years back? What has replaced TEB?
> >
> > DSK C6711 has higher performance in host transfer rates because:
> >
> > -JTAG data does not go through USB-JTAG interface
> >
> > -has HPI port option
> >
> > With DSK C6713 board, the maximum host data rate is about 20
kbyte/sec,
> which means
> > it's not suitable for video daughtercard, streaming audio data
to disk
> file, etc.
> >
> > -Jeff
> >
> I do not know this for a fact, but Spectrum Digital has a C6413 {I
> think} DSK. This
> I think is the replacement for the TEB.
>
> Regds
> JS > _____________________________________
> Note: If you do a simple "reply" with your email client, only the
author of
> this message will receive your answer. You need to do a "reply
all" if you
> want your answer to be distributed to the entire group.
>
> _____________________________________
> About this discussion group:
>
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