Forums

OT: Xmas wishes to you guys

Started by Rick Lyons December 18, 2003
> > Here's the season's greetings in Norwegian: > > God Jul og Godt Nytt�r til alle sammen!
Let me participate, too: Season's greetings in Spanish: Feliz Navidad y Prospero A�o Nuevo! JaaC
> > Rune
On 19 Dec 2003 20:32:32 -0800, allnor@tele.ntnu.no (Rune Allnor)
wrote:

>r.lyons@REMOVE.ieee.org (Rick Lyons) wrote in message news:<3fe206fa.274026125@news.west.earthlink.net>... >> Hi, before I forget: >> >> Here's wishin' you guys a Merry Christmas and >> a Happy New Year! >> >> Of course, these good wishes are also directed at any >> of you who do not celebrate Christmas such as: Muslims, >> Hindi, God-less Atheists, Buddhists, motorcycle mechanics, >> Sikhs, Jews, IIR filter designers, Shinto, Democrats, >> Neo-Pagans, Government Employees, Scientologists, >> people from Ohio, and Rastafarians. >> >> [-Rick-] > >Here's the season's greetings in Norwegian: > > God Jul og Godt Nytt&#2013265925;r til alle sammen! > >Rune
Ahh, what the h***, here's the "happy christmas"-wishes from Sweden: God Jul och Gott Nytt &#2013265925;r till allesammans! Why can't all sort of nationality write their equivalence to happy christmas and a happy new year?, I would like to hear the french version :) //Spike
allnor@tele.ntnu.no (Rune Allnor) wrote in message news:<f56893ae.0312202305.1d783a64@posting.google.com>...
> Jerry Avins <jya@ieee.org> wrote in message news:<3fe4d2c7$0$4751$61fed72c@news.rcn.com>... > > Rune Allnor wrote: > > > > > "Eric C. Weaver" <weav@sigma.net> wrote in message news:<3fe484be@news.announcetech.com>... > > > > > >>Rick Lyons wrote: > > >> > > >>>On 19 Dec 2003 20:32:32 -0800, allnor@tele.ntnu.no (Rune Allnor) > > >>>wrote: > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >>>>Here's the season's greetings in Norwegian: > > >>>> > > >>>>God Jul og Godt Nytt&#2013265925;r til alle sammen! > > >>>> > > >>>>Rune > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>Ah ha, neat. > > >>> > > >>>Rune, what does it mean? > > >> > > >>Just taking a guess, good Yule and good new year to all ... er... salmon. > > > > > > > > > Almost correct. "alle sammen" means "everybody". The fish "salmon" > > > is called "laks" in Norwegian. I think "laks" or something very similar > > > is used in certain English names for fish dishes? > > > > > > Rune > > > > "Lachs" in other Germanic language. "Lox" is smoked salmon in American > > English. It comes from Eastern Europe where, before refrigeration, lox > > and gravlax were all the salmon that people in the interior knew. > > In that case, the words probably come from the Scandinavian languages, > although not necessarily Norwegian. The Swedes historically had far > stronger influence to the east, and the Norwegian, Swedish and Danish > languages differ only in cosmetic details. The name "gravlaks" is a > concatenation made from the words "&#2013265925; grave" (literally "to dig", could > be stretched to include "to bury") and "laks" (salmon). According to > folklore (I don't know if this is the true explanation, but it could > very well be) salmon was preserved by storing the raw fish in a container, > only sprinkeled with sugar and salt, before being put away in storage for > weeks or months. This causes a certain maturing/cooking process to take > place in the fish meat (not entirely dissimilar to the Italian > carpaccio(?), although that one cooks in minutes). According to legend, > the "storage" originally was a hole in the ground where the container > was buried. Thus the name "gravlaks", "buried salmon". > > Gravlaks should not be confused with the "real thing", the "rakfisk". > In the latter case the fish is left in the container to "mature" without > sugar or salt or anything else. Where "gravlaks" can be compared to > smoked slamon in both taste and appearance, the "rakfisk" requires > somewhat more of an "acquired taste". > > Rune
When, around 10 years ago, I was working on a sonar for the Royal Swedish Navy and we had a party to celebrate the end of the project. The project manager brought a tin of similarly "matured" herring. Towards the end of the evening he opened the tin, bringing the party to a very swift end. I am told that the smell lingered for quite some time ;-) "Acquired taste" is an extreme understatement. Ian http://www.satamatics.com (submarines to satellites was quite a jump but they both have signals to process :-))
Rune Allnor wrote:
> Jerry Avins <jya@ieee.org> wrote in message news:<3fe5db06$0$4752$61fed72c@news.rcn.com>... > >>Rune Allnor wrote: >> >> ... >> >> >> >>>Gravlaks should not be confused with the "real thing", the "rakfisk". >>>In the latter case the fish is left in the container to "mature" without >>>sugar or salt or anything else. Where "gravlaks" can be compared to >>>smoked slamon in both taste and appearance, the "rakfisk" requires >>>somewhat more of an "acquired taste". >>> >>>Rune >> >>Speaking of acquired taste in fish, only dire necessity and >>long tradition could transmute lutfisk into a delicacy. >> >>Jerry > > > Most certainly. There are some historical people I would really like to > see, although from a very safe distance: The first person in the world > to eat "rakfisk" would be one, the first person ever to eat "lutefisk" > is another. > > "Lutefisk" is based on dried fish (cod), which is a traditional way of > preserving fish in the northern parts of Norway. Now, using this dried > fish (which resembles a piece of wood) usually involves soaking it in > water for some time. In the case of the "lutefisk", however, the soaking > is done with a twist: You add "lut", which is the Norwegian antonym of > acid (sorry, I never read chemistry in English so I don't know the > terminology of chemistry. "Lut" is some compund that makes a strong > basic(?) solution, i.e. with pH >> 7) to the water where you soak the > dried fish. After reconstituting the fish in this "lut", rinse in running > fresh water for a couple of days. Then, let the fish boil gently for a few > minutes and serve with boiled potatoes, mushy peas and fried bacon + the > local essential garnish, which varies from place to place. > > I think "lutefisk" is a basically(!) insane dish from a cooking point of > view. It takes a very particular kind of imagination (not to mention > motivation) to invent a dish like this. > > Wow, Jerry, how come you know so much about northern European cuisine? > > Rune
Lutfisk is preserved with lye, itself an interesting word. I learned of it from my friend Barbara Hansen's Mother, who lived and died in Minnesota. I suspect that "lut" vs. "lute" depends on which part of Scandinavia (or America) one inhabits. There are many references to lutfisk on the web. One is http://www.surfminnesota.net/lutfisk.html "Lye" is what remains in English of Latin "lixivium"; leachate. It's reasonable to suppose that "lut" has the same genealogy. A related word is "elixir". It derives in turn from "xero-"; dry. Lye is made by soaking wood ash in a large pot and drying the resulting leachate. (Potash.) Good for lots of things. Not only lutfisk, but also soap. Jerry -- Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get. &#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;
Jaime Andres Aranguren Cardona wrote:
>>Here's the season's greetings in Norwegian: >> >> God Jul og Godt Nytt&#2013265925;r til alle sammen! > > > Let me participate, too: > > Season's greetings in Spanish: > > Feliz Navidad y Prospero A&#2013265921;o Nuevo! > > JaaC > > >>Rune >
And in Danish: God Jul og Godt Nyt&#2013265925;r alle sammen Rune, I believe that Odin and Thor just got recognition from the Danish state as a real religion. So it isn't entirely extinct :) Whether xmas happened to be right around winter solstice ,which has been celebrated since forever, by coincidence or a smart PR-stunt I don't know but I'm sure it helped ;) -Lasse
Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:

   ...

> Whether xmas happened to be right around winter solstice > ,which has been celebrated since forever, by coincidence or > a smart PR-stunt I don't know but I'm sure it helped ;) > > > -Lasse
Of course it was no coincidence. The year of Christ's birth is not known with certainty, let alone the month and day. Incidental intelligence: the literal translation of "Jesus Christ(us)" into English is "Jesse Anointed". Jerry -- Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get. &#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;
Jerry Avins <jya@ieee.org> wrote in message news:<3fe700f1$0$4758$61fed72c@news.rcn.com>...
> Rune Allnor wrote: > > Jerry Avins <jya@ieee.org> wrote in message news:<3fe5db06$0$4752$61fed72c@news.rcn.com>... > > > >>Rune Allnor wrote: > >> > >> ... > >> > >> > >> > >>>Gravlaks should not be confused with the "real thing", the "rakfisk". > >>>In the latter case the fish is left in the container to "mature" without > >>>sugar or salt or anything else. Where "gravlaks" can be compared to > >>>smoked slamon in both taste and appearance, the "rakfisk" requires > >>>somewhat more of an "acquired taste". > >>> > >>>Rune > >> > >>Speaking of acquired taste in fish, only dire necessity and > >>long tradition could transmute lutfisk into a delicacy. > >> > >>Jerry > > > > > > Most certainly. There are some historical people I would really like to > > see, although from a very safe distance: The first person in the world > > to eat "rakfisk" would be one, the first person ever to eat "lutefisk" > > is another. > > > > "Lutefisk" is based on dried fish (cod), which is a traditional way of > > preserving fish in the northern parts of Norway. Now, using this dried > > fish (which resembles a piece of wood) usually involves soaking it in > > water for some time. In the case of the "lutefisk", however, the soaking > > is done with a twist: You add "lut", which is the Norwegian antonym of > > acid (sorry, I never read chemistry in English so I don't know the > > terminology of chemistry. "Lut" is some compund that makes a strong > > basic(?) solution, i.e. with pH >> 7) to the water where you soak the > > dried fish. After reconstituting the fish in this "lut", rinse in running > > fresh water for a couple of days. Then, let the fish boil gently for a few > > minutes and serve with boiled potatoes, mushy peas and fried bacon + the > > local essential garnish, which varies from place to place. > > > > I think "lutefisk" is a basically(!) insane dish from a cooking point of > > view. It takes a very particular kind of imagination (not to mention > > motivation) to invent a dish like this. > > > > Wow, Jerry, how come you know so much about northern European cuisine? > > > > Rune > > Lutfisk is preserved with lye, itself an interesting word. I learned of > it from my friend Barbara Hansen's Mother, who lived and died in > Minnesota. I suspect that "lut" vs. "lute" depends on which part of > Scandinavia (or America) one inhabits. There are many references to > lutfisk on the web. One is http://www.surfminnesota.net/lutfisk.html
Interesting. Apparently, Minnesota and N/S Dakota is the area of the USA where the majority of the Norwegian emigrees of the 19th century went. There is a story of a flood in the river Gudbransdalsl&#2013265925;gen, that flows past Lillehammer where the 1994 winter olymics were held, some time in the mid 19th century. The flood basically wiped out most of the farms in the narrow Gudbrandsdalen valley, leaving the survivors in great despair. Many of the survivors who lost their farms were either relocated as settlers in an area to the far north of Norway (M&#2013265925;lselv near Troms&#2013266168;), or they went across the pond and settled in USA. The peculiar thing is that the decendants of these relocated people, both in M&#2013265925;lselv and in USA, have proven to be great resources for linguisticians. They have preserved their original 1850ies dialect from the Gudbrandsdalen valley and served as reference material for researchers who wanted to map the development of the Norwegian language.
> "Lye" is what remains in English of Latin "lixivium"; leachate. It's > reasonable to suppose that "lut" has the same genealogy. A related word > is "elixir". It derives in turn from "xero-"; dry. Lye is made by > soaking wood ash in a large pot and drying the resulting leachate. > (Potash.) Good for lots of things. Not only lutfisk, but also soap.
It's the same thing, apparently. The "lut" vs "lutE" thing is due to some grammatical detail in written Norwegian, which is not quite the same as spoken Norwegian. It's no surprise that it is lost among non-native Norwegians. In fact, it was never even there in my spoken Norwegian dialect. Rune
allnor@tele.ntnu.no (Rune Allnor) wrote in
news:f56893ae.0312221058.62c69a2f@posting.google.com: 

> Jerry Avins <jya@ieee.org> wrote in message > news:<3fe700f1$0$4758$61fed72c@news.rcn.com>... >> Rune Allnor wrote: >> > Jerry Avins <jya@ieee.org> wrote in message >> > news:<3fe5db06$0$4752$61fed72c@news.rcn.com>... >> > >> >>Rune Allnor wrote: >> >> >> >> ... >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>>Gravlaks should not be confused with the "real thing", the >> >>>"rakfisk". In the latter case the fish is left in the container to >> >>>"mature" without sugar or salt or anything else. Where "gravlaks" >> >>>can be compared to smoked slamon in both taste and appearance, the >> >>>"rakfisk" requires somewhat more of an "acquired taste". >> >>> >> >>>Rune >> >> >> >>Speaking of acquired taste in fish, only dire necessity and >> >>long tradition could transmute lutfisk into a delicacy. >> >> >> >>Jerry >> > >> > >> > Most certainly. There are some historical people I would really >> > like to see, although from a very safe distance: The first person >> > in the world to eat "rakfisk" would be one, the first person ever >> > to eat "lutefisk" is another. >> > >> > "Lutefisk" is based on dried fish (cod), which is a traditional way >> > of preserving fish in the northern parts of Norway. Now, using this >> > dried fish (which resembles a piece of wood) usually involves >> > soaking it in water for some time. In the case of the "lutefisk", >> > however, the soaking is done with a twist: You add "lut", which is >> > the Norwegian antonym of acid (sorry, I never read chemistry in >> > English so I don't know the terminology of chemistry. "Lut" is some >> > compund that makes a strong basic(?) solution, i.e. with pH >> 7) >> > to the water where you soak the dried fish. After reconstituting >> > the fish in this "lut", rinse in running fresh water for a couple >> > of days. Then, let the fish boil gently for a few minutes and serve >> > with boiled potatoes, mushy peas and fried bacon + the local >> > essential garnish, which varies from place to place. >> > >> > I think "lutefisk" is a basically(!) insane dish from a cooking >> > point of view. It takes a very particular kind of imagination (not >> > to mention motivation) to invent a dish like this. >> > >> > Wow, Jerry, how come you know so much about northern European >> > cuisine? >> > >> > Rune >> >> Lutfisk is preserved with lye, itself an interesting word. I learned >> of it from my friend Barbara Hansen's Mother, who lived and died in >> Minnesota. I suspect that "lut" vs. "lute" depends on which part of >> Scandinavia (or America) one inhabits. There are many references to >> lutfisk on the web. One is http://www.surfminnesota.net/lutfisk.html > > Interesting. Apparently, Minnesota and N/S Dakota is the area of the > USA where the majority of the Norwegian emigrees of the 19th century > went. There is a story of a flood in the river Gudbransdalsl&#2013265925;gen, that > flows past Lillehammer where the 1994 winter olymics were held, some > time in the mid 19th century. The flood basically wiped out most of > the farms in the narrow Gudbrandsdalen valley, leaving the survivors > in great despair. Many of the survivors who lost their farms were > either relocated as settlers in an area to the far north of Norway > (M&#2013265925;lselv near Troms&#2013266168;), or they went across the pond and settled in > USA. > > The peculiar thing is that the decendants of these relocated people, > both in M&#2013265925;lselv and in USA, have proven to be great resources for > linguisticians. They have preserved their original 1850ies dialect > from the Gudbrandsdalen valley and served as reference material for > researchers who wanted to map the development of the Norwegian > language. > >> "Lye" is what remains in English of Latin "lixivium"; leachate. It's >> reasonable to suppose that "lut" has the same genealogy. A related >> word is "elixir". It derives in turn from "xero-"; dry. Lye is made >> by soaking wood ash in a large pot and drying the resulting leachate. >> (Potash.) Good for lots of things. Not only lutfisk, but also soap. > > It's the same thing, apparently. The "lut" vs "lutE" thing is due to > some grammatical detail in written Norwegian, which is not quite the > same as spoken Norwegian. It's no surprise that it is lost among > non-native Norwegians. In fact, it was never even there in my spoken > Norwegian dialect. > > Rune >
As a Minnesota native, I can attest that lutefisk is way too popular. We have a nearby restaurant that has a lutefisk buffet every Monday night during the winter. Somehow, Drano and fish is supposed to be appetizing. My understanding is that lutefisk was a way to preserve cod in those parts of Norway where fresh fish was not available. We have a friend who grew up in Norway and emigrated to Minnesota. She had never heard of lutefisk until she moved here. Of course, emigrants were usually poor. This suggests they didn't live in the more affluent coastal regions of Norway. Fortunately for me, my last name is Clark, so no one expects me to eat it. I guess, I'm supposed to eat haggis. -- Al Clark Danville Signal Processing, Inc. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Purveyors of Fine DSP Hardware and other Cool Stuff Available at http://www.danvillesignal.com
Jerry Avins wrote:
> Rune Allnor wrote: > >> Jerry Avins <jya@ieee.org> wrote in message >> news:<3fe5db06$0$4752$61fed72c@news.rcn.com>... >> >>> Rune Allnor wrote: >>> >>> ... >>> >>> >>> >>>> Gravlaks should not be confused with the "real thing", the >>>> "rakfisk". In the latter case the fish is left in the container to >>>> "mature" without sugar or salt or anything else. Where "gravlaks" >>>> can be compared to smoked slamon in both taste and appearance, the >>>> "rakfisk" requires somewhat more of an "acquired taste". >>>> Rune >>> >>> >>> Speaking of acquired taste in fish, only dire necessity and >>> long tradition could transmute lutfisk into a delicacy. >>> >>> Jerry >> >> >> >> Most certainly. There are some historical people I would really like >> to see, although from a very safe distance: The first person in the >> world to eat "rakfisk" would be one, the first person ever to eat >> "lutefisk" is another. >> >> "Lutefisk" is based on dried fish (cod), which is a traditional way of >> preserving fish in the northern parts of Norway. Now, using this dried >> fish (which resembles a piece of wood) usually involves soaking it in >> water for some time. In the case of the "lutefisk", however, the >> soaking is done with a twist: You add "lut", which is the Norwegian >> antonym of acid (sorry, I never read chemistry in English so I don't >> know the terminology of chemistry. "Lut" is some compund that makes a >> strong basic(?) solution, i.e. with pH >> 7) to the water where you >> soak the dried fish. After reconstituting the fish in this "lut", >> rinse in running fresh water for a couple of days. Then, let the fish >> boil gently for a few >> minutes and serve with boiled potatoes, mushy peas and fried bacon + >> the local essential garnish, which varies from place to place. >> >> I think "lutefisk" is a basically(!) insane dish from a cooking point >> of view. It takes a very particular kind of imagination (not to >> mention motivation) to invent a dish like this. >> >> Wow, Jerry, how come you know so much about northern European cuisine? >> >> Rune > > > Lutfisk is preserved with lye, itself an interesting word. I learned of > it from my friend Barbara Hansen's Mother, who lived and died in > Minnesota. I suspect that "lut" vs. "lute" depends on which part of > Scandinavia (or America) one inhabits. There are many references to > lutfisk on the web. One is http://www.surfminnesota.net/lutfisk.html > > "Lye" is what remains in English of Latin "lixivium"; leachate. It's > reasonable to suppose that "lut" has the same genealogy. A related word > is "elixir". It derives in turn from "xero-"; dry. Lye is made by > soaking wood ash in a large pot and drying the resulting leachate. > (Potash.) Good for lots of things. Not only lutfisk, but also soap. > > Jerry
I believe it's potassium hydroxide, maybe that's why it's called potash? it's also used on wood floors and such to prevent it from turning yellow from sunlight, gives its a white dusty look. while we are at the northern European cuisine, an unavoidable part of a danish xmas lunch is marinated herring on rye bread, with a curry salad on top and a few "snaps" on the side ;) -Lasse
Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:

   ...

> I believe it's potassium hydroxide, maybe that's why it's called potash? > it's also used on wood floors and such to prevent it from turning yellow > from sunlight, gives its a white dusty look. > > while we are at the northern European cuisine, an unavoidable part of a > danish xmas lunch is marinated herring on rye bread, with a curry salad > on top and a few "snaps" on the side ;)
Yes, potash is largely potassium hydroxide, but there's a fair amount of sodium in the stuff made the old way. Sodium hydroxide and beef fat (glyceral stearate) makes glycerin and the kind of soap we're used to. Potassium hydroxide makes soft soap, and home-made soap made from wood-ash lye is somewhere between. Is it a case of "You say snaps, I say schnapps"? If not, what? Jerry -- Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get. &#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;&#2013266095;