Randy Yates skrev:> However, if you want to worship some other deity (or none at all) > PRIVATELY, then that's your right as a US citizen.God jul, Randy, Rick and everybody. For your trivial pursuit: Scandinavians celebrate "Jul" ("Yule", I believe, in English), not a a derviation of "mass for the celebration of Christ", at least from a linguistic point of view. A thousand years ago, or so, when christianity was introduced to Scandinavia at the tip of a sword, literally speaking, "jul" was the midwinter fiest to celebrate the old norse gods; Odin, Tor, Loke and chums. The christian bishops weren't stupid, they did not abolish the traditional fiests, but rather transformed the religious contents. So "jul" was transformed from a pagan "blot" to a worship of Christ. However, the christian bishops knew where the line had to be drawn, they changed the religious contents and the form of the celebration -- human sacrifce is rare around here, these days -- but they left the name. Of course, few Norwegians hold additional US citizenships, so officially, we still celebrate -- linguistically speaking (no pun intended...) -- the old norse mid-winter re-wake-the-sun fiest. Which is just as well; we really need a mid-winter party during the dark season at 60+ degrees north (67N 30' for me personally right now), no matter one's religion. Rune
OT: Christmas Greetings
Started by ●December 21, 2006
Reply by ●December 23, 20062006-12-23
Reply by ●December 23, 20062006-12-23
Randy Yates wrote:> Eric Jacobsen <eric.jacobsen@ieee.org> writes: >> [...] >> With respect, Randy, but that's the sort of stance taken by the likes >> of the Taliban. > > I think not. The Taliban will murder you for worshiping other Gods or > practicing other religions. > >>> God is part of our *national* belief here. >> I'd disagree strongly with that. > > Take a look on any U.S. coin. Not only that, but "In God We Trust" is the > official national motto of the U.S. > > http://www.ustreas.gov/education/fact-sheets/currency/in-god-we-trust.shtmlThe same Congress that supported HUAC and Senator Joseph McCarthy put it on printed money. Eisenhower wrote privately that it was a bad idea, but signed the bill anyway. Before that, it was only on coins. It first appeared on the two-cent piece in 1864, long after the writers of the Constitution had died. The official motto was "E Pluribus Unum", a far more inclusive sentiment, until 1956. Jerry -- Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get. �����������������������������������������������������������������������
Reply by ●December 23, 20062006-12-23
Randy Yates wrote: ...> Our official, national association with God is also part of the > official Pledge of Allegiance: > > I pledge allegiance to the Flag > of the United States of America, > and to the Republic for which it stands: > one Nation under God, indivisible, > With Liberty and Justice for all.That too was inserted by Eisenhower. It wasn't there when I was a kid. Leave the Founding Fathers out of this. ... Jerry -- Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get. �����������������������������������������������������������������������
Reply by ●December 23, 20062006-12-23
"Rune Allnor" <allnor@tele.ntnu.no> writes:> Randy Yates skrev: > >> However, if you want to worship some other deity (or none at all) >> PRIVATELY, then that's your right as a US citizen. > > God jul, Randy, Rick and everybody. > > For your trivial pursuit: Scandinavians celebrate "Jul" ("Yule", I > believe, > in English), not a a derviation of "mass for the celebration of > Christ", > at least from a linguistic point of view. > > A thousand years ago, or so, when christianity was introduced to > Scandinavia at the tip of a sword, literally speaking, "jul" was the > midwinter fiest to celebrate the old norse gods; Odin, Tor, Loke > and chums. The christian bishops weren't stupid, they did not > abolish the traditional fiests, but rather transformed the religious > contents. So "jul" was transformed from a pagan "blot" to a worship > of Christ. However, the christian bishops knew where the line > had to be drawn, they changed the religious contents and the > form of the celebration -- human sacrifce is rare around here, > these days -- but they left the name. > > Of course, few Norwegians hold additional US citizenships, so > officially, we still celebrate -- linguistically speaking (no pun > intended...) -- the old norse mid-winter re-wake-the-sun fiest. > Which is just as well; we really need a mid-winter party during > the dark season at 60+ degrees north (67N 30' for me personally > right now), no matter one's religion.God jul, Rune! Fascinating to hear about your heritage. --Randy -- % Randy Yates % "Watching all the days go by... %% Fuquay-Varina, NC % Who are you and who am I?" %%% 919-577-9882 % 'Mission (A World Record)', %%%% <yates@ieee.org> % *A New World Record*, ELO http://home.earthlink.net/~yatescr
Reply by ●December 23, 20062006-12-23
Jerry Avins skrev:> The same Congress that supported HUAC and Senator Joseph McCarthy...HUAC...? Rune
Reply by ●December 23, 20062006-12-23
Rick Lyons wrote:> Hi everyone, > > Here's wishin' all you guys a very Merry Christmas and > a Happy New Year! > > Of course, these good wishes are also directed at any > of you who do not celebrate Christmas such as: Muslims, > Hindus, God-less atheists, Buddhists, software engineers, > Sikhs, Jews, IIR filter designers, Shinto, Democrats, > Neo-pagans, transsexual lesbians, U.S. Government > employees, Devil worshippers, Scientologists, people from > the U.S. state of Ohio, FPGA programmers, and Rastafarians. > > [-Rick-] >Hello Borat! My infidel greetings to you! Just wondering how many times have you used exactly this troll. It results in a flame at every time. May be you can suggest something new? VLV
Reply by ●December 23, 20062006-12-23
Randy Yates skrev:> "Rune Allnor" <allnor@tele.ntnu.no> writes: > > > Randy Yates skrev: > > > >> However, if you want to worship some other deity (or none at all) > >> PRIVATELY, then that's your right as a US citizen. > > > > God jul, Randy, Rick and everybody. > > > > For your trivial pursuit: Scandinavians celebrate "Jul" ("Yule", I > > believe, > > in English), not a a derviation of "mass for the celebration of > > Christ", > > at least from a linguistic point of view. > > > > A thousand years ago, or so, when christianity was introduced to > > Scandinavia at the tip of a sword, literally speaking, "jul" was the > > midwinter fiest to celebrate the old norse gods; Odin, Tor, Loke > > and chums. The christian bishops weren't stupid, they did not > > abolish the traditional fiests, but rather transformed the religious > > contents. So "jul" was transformed from a pagan "blot" to a worship > > of Christ. However, the christian bishops knew where the line > > had to be drawn, they changed the religious contents and the > > form of the celebration -- human sacrifce is rare around here, > > these days -- but they left the name. > > > > Of course, few Norwegians hold additional US citizenships, so > > officially, we still celebrate -- linguistically speaking (no pun > > intended...) -- the old norse mid-winter re-wake-the-sun fiest. > > Which is just as well; we really need a mid-winter party during > > the dark season at 60+ degrees north (67N 30' for me personally > > right now), no matter one's religion. > > God jul, Rune! Fascinating to hear about your heritage.Y're welcome. Since we already are into infidelity based on the old norse heritage: The earth was a lot warmer a thousand years ago than it is today. The 13th century Icelandic writer Snorre Sturlason's sagas of the Norwegian kings (covering the years ~870 - 1200 AD) contains an account of the first christian Norwegian king, Olav Tryggvasson's, encounter with a pagan chief in the north, Raud den Rame ("Red the terrible"), at island God=F8ya. God=F8ya is located by the maelstrom Saltstraumen, som 50 km from present-day city Bod=F8. According to Snorre, Olav encountered Raud some distance south of God=F8ya and chased him in order to force him to accept Christianity. As the entourage reached God=F8ya, Raud slipped away from Olav and spelled magic on the sea to force Olav back. Olav tried once more, and the sea forced him back once more. Then, Olav had his bishops bless the sea before he attempted to enter Raud's home port, and this time they succeeded. Present-day historians think Raud knew the waters well enough to enter the maelstrom at in-bound currents, while Olav's two first attempts occured at out-bound currents. Even modern ships are halted by this maelstrom, which flows at 5-10 knots. Whatever actually happened, Olav caught up with Raud and tried to persuade him to accept Christianity as his new religion. Raud refused. As Snorre writes about the punishment of Raud (my translation, after memory): "Olav had Raud tied to a pole. A "lur" (wooden straight trumpet, 1 - 1.5 m long) was forced into Raud's mouth and a serpent was found and forced down the trumpet. A red-hot poker chased the serpent down Raud's throat, whereby the serpent fleed down Raud's throat and eventually ate its way to freedom through the side of Raud's abdomen." How can I deduce from this that the earth was warmer when this happened than it is today? Because one has to travel at least 1000 km south from God=F8ya/Bod=F8 to find anything that comes even close to a "serpent" like the one Snorre claims Olav used to punish Raud.=20 Rune
Reply by ●December 23, 20062006-12-23
Randy Yates wrote: (snip)> However, if you want to worship some other deity (or none at all) > PRIVATELY, then that's your right as a US citizen.The boy scouts (in US, anyway) is an interesting organization. You are supposed to believe in some god, any god. It might be that devil worship is allowed, but atheism isn't. -- glen
Reply by ●December 23, 20062006-12-23
Eric Jacobsen skrev:>Back at ya Rick and everybody else as well. Happiest of Holidays > ... to all of our comp.dsp ... sociopaths.Don't know why, but every year Eric writes this and every year I interpret this as him specifically meaning *me*. Whatever, God Jul to Eric and God Jul to every comp.dsp non-socoipath. "- Same proceedings as last year, miss Sophie? - Same proceedings as every year, James!" Rune
Reply by ●December 23, 20062006-12-23
Vladimir Vassilevsky wrote:> > > Rick Lyons wrote: > >> Hi everyone, >> >> Here's wishin' all you guys a very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year! >> >> Of course, these good wishes are also directed at any of you who do >> not celebrate Christmas such as: ... > > Hello Borat! My infidel greetings to you! > > Just wondering how many times have you used exactly this troll. It > results in a flame at every time. May be you can suggest something new? >I have just started to read this thread, and am shocked, as I naively assumed people were actually sending each other good wishes. How wrong I was! Why is it so easy for ostensibly sane thoughtful people who supposedly respect each other 99% of the time to put so much energy into words that divide, and so difficult to put the same (or more) energy into words that bond? Shame on all of you! Bad this time of year, but bad at any time. And to those of you resident in the USA, an invitation to remember, and give thanks for, the original inhabitants of your lands, Ho, mitakuye ouyasin Richard Dobson
