OT: Christmas Greetings

Rune Allnor wrote:
> Jerry Avins skrev:
>> The same Congress that supported HUAC and Senator Joseph McCarthy...
> 
> HUAC...?

House UnAmerican Activities Committee. A congressional witch-hunting group.

Jerry
-- 
Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.
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Rune Allnor wrote:

   ...

> Whatever actually happened, Olav caught up with Raud and
> tried to persuade him to accept Christianity as his new
> religion. Raud refused.
> 
> As Snorre writes about the punishment of Raud (my translation,
> after memory): "Olav had Raud tied to a pole. A "lur" (wooden
> straight trumpet, 1 - 1.5 m long) was forced into Raud's mouth
> and a serpent was found and forced down the trumpet. A red-hot
> poker chased the serpent down Raud's throat, whereby the serpent
> fleed down Raud's throat and eventually ate its way to freedom
> through the side of Raud's abdomen."

   ...

A terrible picture of Christian benevolence. Now, the torch that lighted 
these practices has largely been been passed to those of other 
religions. I fear that there are those among us who would bring it back.

Jerry
-- 
Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.
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Richard Dobson wrote:

   ...

> And to those of you resident in the USA, an invitation to remember, and 
> give thanks for, the original inhabitants of your lands,

We only have to do that once a year, and Thanksgiving is over. Imagine 
if Christmas lasted all year and we had to be nice all the time!

> Ho, mitakuye ouyasin

Translation?

Jerry
-- 
Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.
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glen herrmannsfeldt wrote:
> Randy Yates wrote:
> (snip)
>
> > However, if you want to worship some other deity (or none at all)
> > PRIVATELY, then that's your right as a US citizen.
>
> The boy scouts (in US, anyway) is an interesting organization.
>
> You are supposed to believe in some god, any god.  It might
> be that devil worship is allowed, but atheism isn't.

Devil's not such a bad guy... once you get to know him.

Don't you watch South Park?

r b-j

Rune Allnor skrev:
.
>
> "- Same proceedings as last year, miss Sophie?
>  - Same proceedings as every year, James!"
>
> Rune

Managed to mess that one up, didn't I... the correct is

 "- Same procedure as last year, miss Sophie?
  - Same procedure as every year, James!"
 
Rune

Jerry Avins wrote:
> Richard Dobson wrote:
> 
>   ...
> 
>> And to those of you resident in the USA, an invitation to remember, 
>> and give thanks for, the original inhabitants of your lands,
> 
> 
> We only have to do that once a year, and Thanksgiving is over. Imagine 
> if Christmas lasted all year and we had to be nice all the time!
> 

Christmas not necessarily (though believe it or not I saw a story of a 
family who do celebrate it non-stop, throughout the year!), but if you 
replace "nice" with "good in heart", maybe once every day is not enough! 
But it need not involve words at all. One simple expression of gratitude 
can be just to set aside a small part of each day for silence.

>> Ho, mitakuye ouyasin
> 
> 
> Translation?

Very similar words in all the native american languages: phonetically it 
might sound, according to the tribe, as "ho mataqueas" or "ho matakiasin":

"For all my relations"

and "Ho" can be said by itself, similar in intention to "amen", 
signifying the trust that it Will be done, and that the intention is an 
honourable one.


Richard Dobson



> 
> Jerry

Richard Dobson wrote:
> Jerry Avins wrote:
>> Richard Dobson wrote:
>>
>>   ...
>>
>>> And to those of you resident in the USA, an invitation to remember, 
>>> and give thanks for, the original inhabitants of your lands,
>>
>>
>> We only have to do that once a year, and Thanksgiving is over. Imagine 
>> if Christmas lasted all year and we had to be nice all the time!
>>
> 
> Christmas not necessarily (though believe it or not I saw a story of a 
> family who do celebrate it non-stop, throughout the year!), but if you 
> replace "nice" with "good in heart", maybe once every day is not enough! 
> But it need not involve words at all. One simple expression of gratitude 
> can be just to set aside a small part of each day for silence.

I can speak with tongue in cheek, but I don't know the corresponding 
locution for writing. I was thinking of the wry lines from Tom Lehrer's 
Christmas song, "On Christmas Day, you can't get sore/ Your fellow man, 
you must adore/ There's time to rob him all the more/ the other three 
hundred and sixty-four" when I wrote what I did.

I indeed appreciate the details of my life, and count myself more 
fortunate every day than I have reason to expect, both in my amenities 
and my friends. I try hard not to rob anybody at any time, and to do my 
bit. It's called "tikkun", and I go about it one drippy faucet at a time.

>>> Ho, mitakuye ouyasin
>>
>>
>> Translation?
> 
> Very similar words in all the native american languages: phonetically it 
> might sound, according to the tribe, as "ho mataqueas" or "ho matakiasin":
> 
> "For all my relations"
> 
> and "Ho" can be said by itself, similar in intention to "amen", 
> signifying the trust that it Will be done, and that the intention is an 
> honourable one.

Thank you. I find that very interesting. *Enjoy the holidays.*

Jerry
-- 
Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.
�����������������������������������������������������������������������

On 23 Dec 2006 15:38:37 -0800, "Rune Allnor" <allnor@tele.ntnu.no>
wrote:

>
>Eric Jacobsen skrev:
>>Back at ya Rick and everybody else as well.   Happiest of Holidays
>> ... to all of our comp.dsp ... sociopaths.
>
>Don't know why, but every year Eric writes this and every year
>I interpret this as him specifically meaning *me*.
>
>Whatever, God Jul to Eric and God Jul to every comp.dsp
>non-socoipath.
>
>"- Same proceedings as last year, miss Sophie?
> - Same proceedings as every year, James!"
>
>Rune

Hehehe...not thinking of you at all in the "sociopath" context, Rune.
We've had a few come through here fairly famously over the years,
IMHO, one of whom made the famous "Comp.dsp Black List" if you've ever
heard of that.

Eric Jacobsen
Minister of Algorithms, Intel Corp.
My opinions may not be Intel's opinions.
http://www.ericjacobsen.org

On Sat, 23 Dec 2006 16:21:57 -0500, Randy Yates <yates@ieee.org>
wrote:

>Randy Yates <yates@ieee.org> writes:
>
>> Eric Jacobsen <eric.jacobsen@ieee.org> writes:
>>> [...]
>>> With respect, Randy, but that's the sort of stance taken by the likes
>>> of the Taliban.
>>
>> I think not. The Taliban will murder you for worshiping other Gods or
>> practicing other religions.

Most religions have done that over time, Christianity perhaps more so
than others.


>>>>God is part of our *national* belief here.
>>>
>>> I'd disagree strongly with that.   
>>
>> Take a look on any U.S. coin. Not only that, but "In God We Trust" is the
>> official national motto of the U.S. 
>>
>>   http://www.ustreas.gov/education/fact-sheets/currency/in-god-we-trust.shtml
>
>Oh, and by the way, this is confirmed in the last verse of our national
>anthem,
>
>    Oh! thus be it ever, when freemen shall stand
>    Between their loved homes and the war's desolation!
>    Blest with victory and peace, may the heaven-rescued land
>    Praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation.
>    Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
>    And this be our motto: "In God is our trust."
>    And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
>    O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!
>
>
>  http://www.bcpl.net/~etowner/anthem.html
>
>Our official, national association with God is also part of the
>official Pledge of Allegiance:
>
>  I pledge allegiance to the Flag
>       of the United States of America,
>  and to the Republic for which it stands:
>       one Nation under God, indivisible,
>  With Liberty and Justice for all.
>
>  http://www.homeofheroes.com/hallofheroes/1st_floor/flag/1bfc_pledge.html
>
>You may not like it, and you may have some valid arguments against it,
>but that's the way it is.

Printing it on money or putting it in a pledge doesn't make it so with
the populace.

As Jerry already pointed out, much of that "heritage" was a result of
the early cold war anti-godless-communism effort.  i.e., it was
politically motivated.  None of it was in place at the time the
country was founded, nor for quite a while afterward.

To try to claim that the US is a "religious" nation is counter to much
of the actual foundation and law of the land.  Many of the people are
religious and there's definitely an undeniable historical heritage
there, but there's also an undeniable non-religious or secular or
whatever-you-want-to-call-it heritage as well that goes back to and
including the founding fathers and is, IMHO, perhaps even more
prevalent today.

There are some very good recent examples.   Minnesota just elected
Keith Ellison, a Muslim, to the US Congress, and he's indicated an
intent to be sworn into office on a Koran instead of on a Bible.
Naturally, plenty of people got into a tizzy about it, but if you
really think the US is a "religious" nation the folks who really know
how it works apparently disagree:

http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/1207/p01s03-uspo.html?s=u

From the article:
________
"The United States is not a Christian state or even a generically
religious state," says Derek Davis, a church-state expert at the
University of Mary Hardin-Baylor in Belton, Texas. "We've worked hard
for 200 years plus to uphold a principle of religious freedom for all
citizens."

In allowing for an affirmation in place of an oath, the Constitution
also makes room for atheists or agnostics.
__________

The freedom to be religious or not is really, IMHO, the beauty of our
heritage.  I've been both and have been glad to have been able to have
my beliefs, regardless of what they were at the time, free of
government influence.

So don't be too surprised that some of us wish very strongly for that
heritage, which has a lot of wisdom to it, to be understood and
continued.

Eric Jacobsen
Minister of Algorithms, Intel Corp.
My opinions may not be Intel's opinions.
http://www.ericjacobsen.org

On Sun, 24 Dec 2006 00:34:16 GMT, Richard Dobson
<richarddobson@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

>Vladimir Vassilevsky wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Rick Lyons wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi everyone,
>>>
>>> Here's wishin' all you guys a very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!
>>>
>>> Of course, these good wishes are also directed at any of you who do 
>>> not celebrate Christmas such as: ...
>> 
>> Hello Borat! My infidel greetings to you!
>> 
>> Just wondering how many times have you used exactly this troll. It 
>> results in a flame at every time. May be you can suggest something new?
>> 
>
>I have just started to read this thread, and am shocked, as I naively 
>assumed people were actually sending each other good wishes. How wrong I 
>was! Why is it so easy for ostensibly sane thoughtful people who 
>supposedly respect each other 99% of the time to put so much energy into 
>words that divide, and so difficult to put the same (or more) energy 
>into words that bond? Shame on all of you! Bad this time of year, but 
>bad at any time.
>
>And to those of you resident in the USA, an invitation to remember, and 
>give thanks for, the original inhabitants of your lands,
>
>Ho, mitakuye ouyasin
>
>
>Richard Dobson

Sometimes these disagreements can be discussed while maintaining
respect for each other and maintain good wishes, and at least for my
part I hope that's how it's being percieved.   I've met Randy and had
enjoyable conversations with him over beers before, and have a lot of
respect for his intellect and beliefs.  I hope that doesn't mean that
we can't discuss areas where we disagree.

I'd offer that being able to have that sort of discussion about
disagreements while still maintaining respect and good wishes for each
other is an attritbute to be celebrated and cultivated.  Many of the
folks here on comp.dsp seem to be capable of that, and it's one of the
few places where I have the most confidence that it can be pulled off.

Or at least I hope so.   Clearly it's not _always_ the case, but that
shouldn't stop us from trying.

I think that's actually the spirit with which Rick offers his annual
holiday wishes, so perhaps the whole thread is entirely apropos.

Happy Holidays to everybody, regardless!  ;)



Eric Jacobsen
Minister of Algorithms, Intel Corp.
My opinions may not be Intel's opinions.
http://www.ericjacobsen.org